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MR. ROGER RABBIT

I used to be Free, I used to be Wild
Articles Posted: 8  Links Seeded: 6
Member Since: 10/2009  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

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Airport pat downs and other profiles we don't mind.

Thu Dec 9, 2010 11:29 AM EST
race, politics, liberal, conservative, logic, profiling
By Mr. Roger Rabbit
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Recent news about New-York cabbies wanting to profile their passengers, so they don’t get shot instead of paid, had very much highlighted the hypocrisy of the society regarding the subject of profiling. Of course no-one would’ve paid any attention to another cabbie shot in a big city, were it not happening during a much larger national debate about what we as a society should do to our own people: profile their behavior or sexually molest them without their consent.

I am not going into details explaining the difference between behavioral and racial profiling. I am not going to explain that islam infects 1.6 billion people of all races, genders, and continents, so there is no way we can “profile” them based on their faith. Terrorists on the other hand tend to behave the same way all over the world, including muslims, Christians and I suspect Buddhists too, if one could ever find a Buddhist terrorist.

What I will talk about is the fact that many aspects of our lives we are being profiled, and we accept that profiling without so much as a blink of eye.

  1. Ever visited Amazon.com? Chances are – you did. Ever seen the words people who purchased this book also bought … ? Some of you probably even bought one of those recommendations. Do you know how Amazon does it? Simple – behavioral profiling. They see what other people do and try to help you, by making suggestions. Has anyone complained about that? Did you ever see ACLU protesting book sales, because they profile?

  2. Law enforcement. They profile the criminals all the time. They find things that criminals do, and use these profiles to help solve other crimes. Moreover FBI has the whole profiling unit, dealing with serious criminals. You know what they do? Racial and gender profiles. Does middle –aged white man with traveling jobs and unremarkable exterior sounds familiar? Do any of you object to it being used every time a serial killer or a mass murderer comes up? If you don’t, than please explain how it is different from 16-35 loner man of Middle Eastern descent? It is not? Then why does everyone object? It is the same type of profile to be used for the same purpose. But moving on.

  3. Do you know who else profiles you for a living? TransUnion, Experian and Equifax. These are not the names of the secret CIA prison camps, these are not the evil Republican think tanks, these are not even Internet aliases for the three stooges. These are credit agencies, that report on you to the credit card companies, mortgage companies, banks, private loan organizations, any employer, landlord, power or phone company – anyone who does credit check as a part of their business. You credit score is your financial profile, it is a number that is attached to your name for the rest of your life. And guess what – no one is objecting, but try to attach a number to a potential terrorist – and the whole hell breaks loose. Did you know that since 2005 it is illegal to attach a score to a person when evaluating their likelihood of being a terrorist? If anyone sees logic here – please explain it to me.

  4. Employers do behavioral profiling every time they hire a person. Ever been to an interview? I have, from both sides of the table. What is the interview process if not a profile? How do you dress? How do you shake hands? How do you look people in the eye? How do you sit? How confident are you? How fast can you learn? What would you do if this? What would you do if that? Someone looks for dumb but obedient, someone for creative but unruly, and we all know that in both cases it is a behavioral profile. Who is going to believe in obedient and creative type? Who needs a dumb rebel? Or a disorganized manager? Shy sales rep? (Not that we all did not have one of those at one time or the other). Guys won a gender discrimination lawsuit against Hooters, so? Seen any male waters at Hooters, lately?

  5. Marketing and Advertisement industry and by extension any industry that delivers the message, and any industry that pays for the message. Marketing is all about segmenting the marketing by various profiles, and targeting them with laser-point accuracy. Would Hallmark advertise on the Spike channel? I do not think so. Would Phillip Morris ever target retired female audience? Why bother, when you can find some high-schoolers and show them the Marlboro man? The whole art of selling is built around the concept of a profile, and is working fine, without too much objection to the concept as a whole.

  6. Businesses directly profile their clientele all the time. Some more, some less, some are simply built around one profile. I mean doesn’t BET is guilty of some racial profiling of its audiences? No one seems to object. I would venture to say that LMN and QVC are themselves guilty of gender profiling, without any objection from anyone out there. The entire city of Las-Vegas is nothing more than a very large behavioral profiling center, for the naughty with disposable income. Do you think that “what happens in Vegas – stays in Vegas” type slogan would work for Des Moines or Pittsburgh? The issue does not cover just Walt Disney Co, or the porn industry, it concerns your friendly neighborhood groceries and Wall-Marts. For instance there are two fairly large Korean stores in my neighborhood – one a little closer, and one a little further out. Since both are Korean, the majority of the store is roughly the same, but when one that is closer to home has a very-very prominent section with Mexican goods, and the one further out, sports a huge Indian section. None have a Kosher section, which is somewhat present in the major-chain supermarket. Religious discrimination? What do you think restaurants that display large “HALAL” signs are doing? I am guessing here – the religious profiling. A business in Philadelphia requested that orders are placed in English – after a big uproar, the court upheld their right to discriminate on that basis.

  7. Let’s not forget the beloved insurance industry. Do you smoke? Do you drink? Did great-great-great great grandmother ever cheated on her husband? Where in any accidents? Had DUI? What are your grades at school? Are you a white man between 42 and 55? Pregnant much lately? Filed any recent claims? Do you have insurance with us?

  8. Closely followed by the medical profession. We have noticed that Eastern European women over the age of 50 with blue eyes are at higher risk of glaucoma? Or is it diabetes? Jewish much? Then Tay-Sachs and Asperberger’s is for you. Ashkenazi on top of that? We’ll put your down for Gaucher’s and Von Gerke. If not, it’s ok too – we’ve got nice little Creutzfeldt-Jakob for our Sephardic patients. Don’t like it? Fine don’t go to the doctors, and don’t watch House, there is a guy who tends not to profile people, while saving their lives.

  9. Us, as in we the people. We profile each other left and right. The survey shows that the country is more and more being divided by the politics. As of today your party affiliation – liberal or conservative, pretty much defines you lifestyle and your circle of friends. For any person most of their circle of friends will have an awful lot in common with them. Education, income level, political views, race and ethnicity are huge factors in forming these circles. Anyone who would take an honest look around, would notice that the vast majority of people tend to gravitate towards those with similar profiles, beliefs and causes.

Someone please explain to me – if profiling is an ingrained part of our daily lives, what is wrong with using a little profiling in order to preserve our daily lives just the way we like them?

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  • Public Discussion (49)
Mr. Roger Rabbit

CoH, please

  • 3 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 11:31 AM EST
Socrates1

As you suggest, profiling is a part of our individual daily lives, the question is whether the profile is accurate. I would suggest that profiling me as a terrorist simply because I wish to travel by air from point A to point B does not fit the criteria.

  • 3 votes
Reply#2 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 11:40 AM EST
Rigbee Dugane

In turn, I would suggest that you're oversimplifying.

  • 2 votes
#2.1 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 12:00 PM EST
Socrates1

How so?

  • 2 votes
#2.2 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 12:21 PM EST
Mr. Roger Rabbit

Soc, I am defending behavioral profiling at the airport. As for traveling from point A to point B - I can tell that there are profiles out there (non-terror related) that do just that. What is important to understand that profiles are not the ultimate answer, they are a starting point. The profile don't answer the question - "are you a terrorist?", but rather a question "do you deserve a second look?". They are very good at excluding militant christian grandma's in wheel chair from the pat-down process.

    #2.3 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 12:39 PM EST
    Socrates1

    I thought I was agreeing with you?

      #2.4 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 12:41 PM EST
      Rigbee Dugane

      Or perhaps I misunderstood your point. Are you saying that as things stand. we are all currently being profiled as terrorists, thereby subject to scanning and groping?

      If you are, I agree entirely.

      • 2 votes
      #2.5 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 2:37 PM EST
      Socrates1

      Yes.

      • 2 votes
      #2.6 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 2:48 PM EST
      Reply
      Tinkerfarie

      I completely see your point and what you have said is true. I don't really understand either but I have a hunch that it has to do with the world we live in now. Everyone has to be so stinking politically correct. You can barely say anything without offending someone, whether it be their beliefs, education, gender or race. It has become the norm in this society over the last 10 years or so that you can be blasted and crucified for an opinion. One opinion can label you as a racist, a sexist, a bigot, a masochistic, ect, ect. Especially if you are not following the crowd and being a sheep.

      We "profile" or as some would rather say, form an assessment of people, companies, businesses on a daily basis. In looking for a mate, or spouse. We all have a list of things we want or dont want. That is essentially profiling. We profile the stores we choose to shop at. Some people will grocery shop at Safeway because it is a better atmosphere than Walmart, or vice versa. Whatever the reason we all profile.

      Profiling has become an ugly word, I think many now link profiling solely with race and religion now and that is why it can not be done out in the open. It would just be another discrimination issue. Not unlike the whole mess in Arizona this summer became. It is all very humorous to me since as you pointed out, many government agencies are famous for profiling.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#3 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 12:08 PM EST
      Mr. Roger Rabbit

      It has become the norm in this society over the last 10 years or so that you can be blasted and crucified for an opinion

      Only if you are a white male, christian, or a conservative of any race or gender. Everyone else's opinions are highly respected. Make no mistake the PC Police profiles with the best of them.

      Profiling has become an ugly word, I think many now link profiling solely with race and religion now and that is why it can not be done out in the open. It would just be another discrimination issue. Not unlike the whole mess in Arizona this summer became. It is all very humorous to me since as you pointed out, many government agencies are famous for profiling.

      As are many popular TV shows, including the ones being openly watched by liberals.

      • 2 votes
      #3.1 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 12:45 PM EST
      Tinkerfarie

      Only if you are a white male, christian, or a conservative of any race or gender. Everyone else's opinions are highly respected. Make no mistake the PC Police profiles with the best of them.

      Very true, I forgot to point that out!

      As are many popular TV shows, including the ones being openly watched by liberals.

      There are many of those types of show on too. Especially shows like L&O and Criminal Minds. I suppose we need to take in account that not only children are confusing (fictional) television with real life.

      • 1 vote
      #3.2 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 12:59 PM EST
      RealityCheck12Deleted
      Reply
      Auteur 1536

      Us, as in we the people. We profile each other left and right.

      Some for good reasons, most for stupid reasons.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#4 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 12:26 PM EST
      Mr. Roger Rabbit

      All I am saying that this is not some exotic technique of Satan's design, but rather a ubiquitous part of our daily lives, that should be applied as appropriate.

      • 2 votes
      #4.1 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 12:41 PM EST
      Socrates1

      I might reverse that....some for stupid reasons, most for good reason?

      Didn't your mother ever tell you about first impressions?

      (along with, of course, don't judge a book by its cover) lol

      • 3 votes
      #4.2 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 12:43 PM EST
      Auteur 1536

      some for stupid reasons, most for good reason?

      No. Most for stupid reasons.

      All I am saying that this is not some exotic technique of Satan's design, but rather a ubiquitous part of our daily lives, that should be applied as appropriate.

      But how often is it applied as "appropriate"?

        #4.3 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 1:17 PM EST
        Socrates1

        "Most"? You don't think that language might indicate a point of origin. Clothes a particular culture. Hygene a particular mindset. etc. etc. etc.

        • 2 votes
        #4.4 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 1:23 PM EST
        Auteur 1536

        Depends, is the person a hobo or a person who has a job and home but doesn't bother to use the shower?

          #4.5 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 1:26 PM EST
          Rigbee Dugane

          Depends, is the person a hobo or a person who has a job and home but doesn't bother to use the shower?

          You're not suggesting that hobos have bad hygiene, are you? Because that sounds kind of like a stereotype that might lead to profiling.

          • 3 votes
          #4.6 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 2:41 PM EST
          Mr. Roger Rabbit

          It is ok to profile hobos, as long as they American hobos. They don't vote, and they don't have a voice in the media, so go right ahead.

          • 5 votes
          #4.7 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 4:30 PM EST
          Rigbee Dugane

          My new band name - American Hobos.

          • 2 votes
          #4.8 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 6:22 PM EST
          Auteur 1536

          You're not suggesting that hobos have bad hygiene, are you? Because that sounds kind of like a stereotype that might lead to profiling.

          I'm not suggesting. I know that hobos have bad hygene - the actual homeless hobos and the hobos who have homes but don't use the shower. Take public transportation and walk to your destinations for a couple of months and see for yourself, though you should try not to confuse the bad smell of sweat with the bad smell of not bathing for weeks to months. Course I haven't had to use my pepper spray on any lately as I have the good luck of being approached or sitting next to the more "polite" hobos.

          • 3 votes
          #4.9 - Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:29 AM EST
          Rigbee Dugane

          I know that hobos have bad hygene

          You've either actually smelled all of the hobos of the world, or you're stereotyping. I have a guess as to which is the truth.

          • 3 votes
          #4.10 - Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:55 PM EST
          Mr. Roger Rabbit

          or you're stereotyping...

          Another word for stereotyping is "extrapolating", alternatively call it "profiling", another one is "statistical projection". It is a safe assumption that a random hobo on the street will smell bad. Margin of error is about 3%-5%. One does need to smell all hobos in the world to produce a reasonable supposition. For instance your statement - try all, or stereotyping, is coherent with the typical liberal discussion technique - not all muslims are bad, not all hobos smell, not all liberals are wrong because we didn't talk to all of them yet. But all white men are racist, sexist and evil, all conservatives are heartless numb-minded robots, and all profiling is bad, unless we do not recognize it as profiling.

          • 4 votes
          #4.11 - Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:14 AM EST
          Rigbee Dugane

          I believe you meant to say, "One does not need to smell all hobos..."

          • 2 votes
          #4.12 - Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:08 AM EST
          Mr. Roger Rabbit

          I believe you meant to say, "One does not need to smell all hobos..."

          I share this belief with you. Thanks for the correction.

          • 3 votes
          #4.13 - Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:33 PM EST
          Auteur 1536

          You've either actually smelled all of the hobos of the world, or you're stereotyping.

          You either don't have a nose or you've never taken public transportation before. Also, notice I just said "hobos". I didn't say "all hobos."

          • 1 vote
          #4.14 - Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:16 PM EST
          Reply
          Adam Becker

          All the examples you offered are profiling people based on observable and documented behavior. A taxi cab driver cannot possibly observe and document the behavior of a person before that person enters their cab, thus there is no good way for this "profiling" to work. You would have to provide a solid, non-ambiguous, non-optional set of criteria that would identify a person as likely to have a gun and likely to shoot a cab driver. It cannot be open to interpretation at all, because the cab drivers are not in a position to make educated interpretations. They don't have enough evidence. Can you provide such a list? Can you tell me what makes a person likely to shoot me, based on spending 10 seconds next to them? I don't think you can.

          All you're proposing is racism.

          • 2 votes
          Reply#5 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 12:54 PM EST
          Mr. Roger Rabbit

          All the examples you offered are profiling people based on observable and documented behavior.

          Correction - it is the subject behaviour being presently observed, matched against the documented behaviour.

          A taxi cab driver cannot possibly observe and document the behavior of a person before that person enters their cab, thus there is no good way for this "profiling" to work

          1. N.Y. cabbies were merely an example of the subject of profiling being in the spotlight.
          2. Of course they can - when a guy in South Bronx hails a cab, does not look the driver in the eye and asks to drive forward at3:00 AM, not being a professional cabbie - I would not pick up that fair be it black, hispanic or a suicidal white person. It fits the profile called common sense.

          You would have to provide a solid, non-ambiguous, non-optional set of criteria that would identify a person as likely to have a gun and likely to shoot a cab driver.

          To the jury after the driver was shot - sure. If I was the cabbie, with my life on the line - I do not need solid proof, all I need is reasonable doubt - and I am gone. Too much risk, and no upside.

          It cannot be open to interpretation at all, because the cab drivers are not in a position to make educated interpretations. They don't have enough evidence.

          You are correct - it cannot be open to interpretation. I feel that I can risk my life for my own beliefs, but asking a stranger - a N.Y. taxi driver, to risk their lives for your political correctness is a bit rich, don't you think? I mean it is not you who gets shot, if things go wrong.

          Can you tell me what makes a person likely to shoot me, based on spending 10 seconds next to them? I don't think you can.

          Wrong time, wrong place, wrong look, bad gut feeling. Took me less than one second.

          All you're proposing is racism.

          This wouldn't happen to be an example of liberal profiling?I mean a person publishing an opinion that does not condemn profiling - definitely fits the profile of a racist, right?

          • 3 votes
          #5.1 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 1:27 PM EST
          Socrates1

          Disagree...

          Being in a known drug area at 3 in the morning and being hailed by a single young male standing at the corner with two other males all of which have tattoos and exhibit "prison" physiques. Odds are that there might be something "amiss".

          • 3 votes
          #5.2 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 1:27 PM EST
          Adam Becker

          Being in a known drug area at 3 in the morning and being hailed by a single young male standing at the corner with two other males all of which have tattoos and exhibit "prison" physiques. Odds are that there might be something "amiss".

          So having tattoos makes someone more likely to commit a crime?

          What's a "prison physique" exactly? I've seen prisoners of many shapes and sizes.

            #5.3 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 1:32 PM EST
            Adam Becker

            it is the subject behaviour being presently observed, matched against the documented behaviour.

            Amazon tracks purchases people make, then tells you what people who bought the same thing you did ALSO bought. There's nothing subjective about that.

            Criminal profiles go way beyond "he's black." They describe specific acts and behaviors.

            And so on.

              #5.4 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 1:34 PM EST
              Auteur 1536

              What's a "prison physique" exactly?

              They look like an uglier version of Snitsky.

              • 1 vote
              #5.5 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 1:37 PM EST
              Socrates1

              Adam and if I were to have said the suspect is blond, with blue eyes, and wearing a red coat...would you then ask whether all people with red coats are suspect? Profiling is the combination of all the factors, your response suggests a view that many seem to have, and thus show their inability to understand the nature of profiling...

              Massive upper body our of all proportion.

              Dave Palumbo's
              PERFECT PRISON PHYSIQUE

              http://www.davepalumbo.com/ProductsPages/Books.htm

              How ironic, there is even a book with the above title...rather than attempting to suggest that I shouldn't, or couldn't, back up such a claim, perhaps you need to get out more? Agenda...as per usual.

              • 2 votes
              #5.6 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 1:49 PM EST
              Adam Becker

              How ironic, there is even a book with the above title...rather than attempting to suggest that I shouldn't, or couldn't, back up such a claim, perhaps you need to get out more? Agenda...as per usual.

              So some random dude having a book with the phrase "prison physique" in it makes it valid? That's a pretty low standard.

              So is it safe for me to assume that any person I see with "massive upper body our of all proportion" has been in prison?

              And is it safe for me to assume that any person I see WITHOUT "massive upper body our of all proportion" has NOT been in prison?

              • 2 votes
              #5.7 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 2:06 PM EST
              Socrates1

              No, simply an example suggesting that others use the exact phrase.

              Depending on other criteria..yes.

              No.

              Again, you seem to have trouble understanding the concept of profiling...even though you cannot avoid doing it in your daily life.

              • 4 votes
              #5.8 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 2:27 PM EST
              Reply
              Donna Carbone

              If possible, I would really like to have my cake and eat it, too -- a deep, rich, eewey, gooey calorie laden chocolate concoction that will not clog my arteries or put my hips and thighs into competition with an oversized extra wide 18 wheeler. Ain't gonna happen!

              That's pretty much what those opposing the new body scanning machines are demanding. While they want our government to keep them safe from terrorists, they want it done without infringing on their personal liberties. Ain't gonna happen!

              The reason is simple. These same individuals condemn profiling and live with the mistaken belief that freedom is less free if we deny it to our enemies. Even worse, those people who understand that selective profiling is the only sure way to keep this country safe have allowed themselves to be silenced by the "shame inducing" ranting of others.

              Charles Krauthammer, the syndicated columnist (and psychiatric physician) wrote a recent editorial on airport security and his voice was one of reason in the din of hysteria. Mr. K acknowledges that present methods of protection serve only one purpose -- to quell the angry voices of those Americans who are more interested in being politically correct than in actually protecting the liberties they cherish. As a result, all citizens are now subjected to legalized molestation at the hands of the TSA.

              Mr. Krauthammer summed up the matter of security very succinctly. He wrote, "The only reason we continue to do this is that people are too cowed to even question the absurd taboo against profiling -- when the profile of the airline attacker is narrow, concrete, uniquely definable and universally known." Amen!

              Being aware of ones enemies and taking precautions to prevent terrorist attacks is not racism. It's intelligent and necessary behavior if we are to protect the freedoms the anti profiling crowd seem to feel are in jeopardy. Until we accept that profiling within the definable parameters of the known equation is necessary, we will continue to subject everyone -- from infants to the infirm -- to the groping of strangers.

              Perhaps, the problem lies with the label. "Racial" profiling is, I admit, distasteful and useless. Behavioral profiling, on the other hand, is beneficial. To the experienced eye, terrorists have a "look." Spotting one is akin to an expert poker player looking for tells in his opponents.

              Wouldn't it be better to have security guards trained in the art of the "tell", as Israel does, then to waste time and money on methods that are merely meant to pacify? Aren't you tired of the "let's pretend to protect" systems we have in place? I would like not to have to buy assorted sundries each time I arrive at a destination only to have to throw them away before I leave.

              Not every Muslim is a terrorist. Not every white guy driving a pickup truck is the next Timothy McVeigh. But some are and because some are, we must take precautions. Stereotypes come about because more often than not people display the same mannerisms familiar to certain behavior.

              We need to stop shouting about lost liberty and allow our government to do what is necessary to guarantee that those liberties will be available to everyone. The only way that can be accomplished is to admit that behavioral profiling has a place in the world today.

              • 2 votes
              Reply#6 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 2:50 PM EST
              Mr. Roger Rabbit

              Never got a nude scan in Israel. Got a third degree a couple of times, but never a nude scan or a pat down. Are you absolutely sure about this "deep, rich, eewey, gooey calorie laden chocolate concoction"? :-)

              • 2 votes
              #6.1 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 4:36 PM EST
              Donna Carbone

              I'm absolutely sure that it will clog my arteries and spread my hips... but I'll die happy! Chocolate -- the next best thing to... nope, there's nothing better than good chocolate!

                #6.2 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 4:43 PM EST
                Reply
                Rigbee Dugane

                Can anyone tell me how many potential terrorists have been caught by TSA in the past few years? I would think that if there are a bunch of people who've been caught in the Security Area of our airports with firearms or explosives, then the system may be working. If not...

                • 3 votes
                Reply#7 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 3:04 PM EST
                Mr. Roger Rabbit

                I can offer you stats on baby formula and manicure scissors.

                • 2 votes
                #7.1 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 4:37 PM EST
                Rigbee Dugane

                Indeed.

                  #7.2 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 6:23 PM EST
                  Auteur 1536

                  Just wait till they come up with the explosive tampon.

                  • 1 vote
                  #7.3 - Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:25 PM EST
                  Mr. Roger Rabbit

                  Don't give them any ideas.

                  • 2 votes
                  #7.4 - Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:00 PM EST
                  Auteur 1536

                  I don't need to.

                    #7.5 - Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:53 PM EST
                    Reply
                    Jarandhel

                    Moreover FBI has the whole profiling unit, dealing with serious criminals. You know what they do? Racial and gender profiles. Does middle –aged white man with traveling jobs and unremarkable exterior sounds familiar? Do any of you object to it being used every time a serial killer or a mass murderer comes up? If you don’t, than please explain how it is different from 16-35 loner man of Middle Eastern descent? It is not? Then why does everyone object? It is the same type of profile to be used for the same purpose.

                    Actually, it's not. Profiles of serial killers are issued after a crime has been committed, and are used to narrow down the available suspects to the one person likely to have committed the crime.

                    The second profile you present "16-35 loner man of Middle Eastern descent" is issued before a crime has been committed, and is used to cast suspicion on the entire group it describes. Thus, we are told, we should use this profile at the airports... searching everyone that meets its rough criteria. But that's the exact opposite of how the profile is used in a serial killer case.

                    Can you even imagine stopping every "middle aged white mail with unremarkable exterior" at a given public establishment and searching them for possible murder weapons when no crime has yet been committed?

                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#8 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 3:47 PM EST
                    Socrates1

                    I return to my question of why I should be searched, patted down, etc. simply because I wish to travel by air?

                    • 3 votes
                    #8.1 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 3:49 PM EST
                    Donna Carbone

                    If we would just accept that behavioral profiling is an effective tool in the war against terrorism, we could go back to the days when air travel was actually enjoyable. Okay, it's never going to be enjoyable again, but we can make it less stressful. Let's allow the people who know what they are looking for do the looking. Then, the rest of us can go about our merry way with a smile and a wave to the departing TSA agents who will no longer be needed.

                    • 2 votes
                    #8.2 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 4:32 PM EST
                    Mr. Roger Rabbit

                    The second profile you present "16-35 loner man of Middle Eastern descent" is issued before a crime has been committed, and is used to cast suspicion on the entire group it describes.

                    As is the first one. There is no serial killer on the loose as it stands right now, and yet there is profile waiting for one to show up. One more time, for those of us who cannot hear. Profile is not the ultimate condemnation - it is a place to start. If the aforementioned "16-35 loner man of Middle Eastern descent" is innocent - we just put them on the plane with the rest of us.

                    Thus, we are told, we should use this profile at the airports... searching everyone that meets its rough criteria.

                    Not at all, in another seed of mine, I am advocating the Israeli model - the behavioral profiling, the model they use, where they ask people questions - all people BTW, where you're from, where are going, do you have relatives there, do you speak hebrew, do you speak arabic? For most people that is it. For me personally it is about an hour of different questions, after which I get on the plane. No nude scans, no invasive pat downs - no long annoying lines. Is it truly so wrong - to ask a person a couple of questions, and see if they can answer while looking you in the eyes? Is this really such a horrible inconceivable technique?

                    Can you even imagine stopping every "middle aged white mail with unremarkable exterior" at a given public establishment and searching them for possible murder weapons when no crime has yet been committed?

                    If there is an active serial killer on the loose? Stopping them and asking some questions, while looking at them? Yes I can - it used to be called a roadblock, or a checkpoint. And FYI police still does it from time, sometimes during the manhunt, and sometimes as a temporary measure in bad neighborhoods.

                    Why I cannot do - is understand, why is it such a difficult concept for you to grasp? No one says grab the arab, people say - have some sense, don't grab the grandma or the three year-old. Can you imagine someone giving a pat down to a three year old girl outside of the utter stupidity of TSA? They would probably get a longer sentence than KSM will.

                    • 4 votes
                    #8.3 - Thu Dec 9, 2010 4:50 PM EST
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